Law Firm Vera Zambrano & Associates

Summer travel season is here. Nearly 25% of American adults intend to travel internationally this summer. There are more and more international travelers, either for leisure or business. Hi, my name is Moza Bella. I will introduce you to experts in different industries who are willing to share the lessons from their mistakes so we all can learn from them and avoid them as much as we can. This is a perfect time to have with us someone who understands both businesses and legal landscapes across the borders. Vera, welcome to the show. How are you? Thank you so much for having me today, Moza. Oh, it's my honor to have you here on the show. So could you please explain to us what drew you into international law and how you started your business? Yes.My name is Vera Zambrano. I'm the lead attorney of Zambrano & Associates. And my law firm, I started it in 2018. In Germany, in Europe, and expanded two and a half years later to the United States. And what we do is we do international consultation and representation. So, what do you specialize in? We specialize in a lot of different areas. So we have a lot of international family law, inheritance law, international private and contract law, international criminal law, and also copyright and music law and business law. That's also what we deal with on a daily basis. So according to you, what are the most challenging issues that we're facing? Yes. So in this world, as you know, a lot of people move all around the world. Right.So no one lives in a certain place forever. We move privately for private or business reasons. And we have a lot of private clients that move between different continents. So they have a lot of challenges that come with it in private and also in business. And that's what we specialize in. Right. When they have to, you know, some family problems or they want to separate from a business. Get out of a business and dissolve a business even. So that's when we come into place and represent them the best we can. Right. I understand that as a business owner, I'm sure that there's not always that, you know, things will go as planned, right? Yeah. So then share with us, you know, one of the experiences that you learned from your mistakes.Yes. So it is very challenging, right? So no cases like the other. We had a very important case about a big business here in the States. The co-owner, he moved to Europe, he moved to Germany. And that's why he wanted to, you know, he claimed certain assets of the company get out of the company, right? So that was a big challenge to try to represent him the best way possible and to get him a great success, right? And to have the company still existing. So to not dissolve the company and to still, you know, have the best relationship with your ex-partner in this business. Yeah. So my understanding is that international law is very complex and unpredictable. So could you share some of the challenges that you have? Because I know that you plan everything in advance, but then sometimes the plan doesn't work, right? Then what would you do in that case?We have court appointments going on and you don't know what witnesses might say in these cases. So you have to be prepared for a plan A, plan B, plan C even to, you know, to try to get the best outcome for the client and also not to disrupt relationships. Right. Especially in private matters, in family inheritance matters, also in business law. You don't want to burn the bridge. Right. Well, that sounds so complex already. Tell me again, so what, how do you navigate in between, you know, different regulations and expectations in, you know, from different countries? Yes. So you have to always look at the jurisdiction. Where is the court that we have to, you know, file the claim to or where do we have to represent a client?I mean, it always is different. In family law, it's where the residence of the parties is. Or when it's about children, you have to look at where is the main residence of the child, of the children. In business, we have to look at where is the company registered, right? So you always have to find out the right jurisdiction in the first place to know where you have to represent the client. So what emerging trends that I see in international laws? So I see the globalization, right, is still driving very fast. It's not the end. So a lot of people move into different companies. They move away, right? They move to different countries, even different continents. And they still have to, you know, overcome those challenges. So also a lot of families these days, right?When they separate, they have to share custody in most cases. And how do you, you know, get that into a very good visitation plan, right? Can you see your kids still and make it work for the family, for the extended family? Yeah. So you've been in this field for both countries, right, here in the U . S. and in Germany. So what would be your advice for young students and young people that would like to enter and pursue the field of international law? What would be my advice to them? Wants to, who already knows they want to become a business owner, a company owner and have their own firm to, you know, focus on what they love the most, right? What are they passionate about? That's the most important part for success, right?So, you have to, you know, be willing to go the extra mile and, you know, put in the work and do a lot more than, you know, what you're asked for, right? So find the one thing that you're very passionate about and then try to, you know, create the traffic in this specific field. And then you will be successful because you love what you do, right? And the clients will also see that, right? And you just need a lot of patience, a lot of work, and a lot of understanding that it's not one thing from yesterday to tomorrow. It takes time, right? Yeah, that is so true. Passion. Passion is number one, right? And you mentioned about, you know, it takes time, so patience.So what would be the skill set that you would advise for them acquire to be able to be successful in this field? Yes, that's exactly what you mentioned. So it is, first is this passion, like motivation for what you're doing. You have to bring the love for it, right? Love for people in general, because you will come across a lot of different cultures, religions, languages, also, right? What is also very beneficial besides all the knowledge that you have to have in your field is to be very understanding with people, right? And everyone is different. Everyone comes from a different path so try to be as empathetic as you can be and and you knowhave understanding for for the person um and then to you know to guide them the best you can yes yeah sounds like you know um it's it's almost in anything any career path that we would like to you know any profession right so we need to have all of those qualities um so would you mind sharing like some one of the most significant memories that you have experienced that would you like you know make a strong impact professionally and personally to you Yes So we have a lot of international family cases right so when the partners split the parents split and one wants to move you know across the country or even to another country we had a very significant case where they had five children together and they were all minors And then we were able to work out a very good visitation plan for all those kids So no one of the parents would have to really sacrifice a lot.Of course, they had to split, right, because they were unable to maintain their marriage. So that was the best for them. But the kids are able to see both of them, right? And they're spending vacation with one parent and, you know, living the other time with the other parent to make it, you know, the best and the best way possible for this family, which is very hard because everyone just wants to have the children all the time, right, and not want to let them go. But it's very important, right? Those decisions for a lifetime, they impact everyone in the family, everyone around. So it's challenging, but it's definitely very rewarding when you get that outcome. That's wonderful. That's wonderful. So failures and setbacks are just part of any business, right? Any career. What would I tell the younger attorneys or lawyers when they're facing certain setbacks and certain mistakes or failures in their career right now?Have to also at some point fail right and to see what can you make better what is what is better for you you know to do the next time right so for for any colleagues for any junior professionals I would highly recommend to you know just keep going keep trying even if you fail you have to you know get back improve your strategy look at what what went wrong right see you know analyze your your mistakes and all those around you right to see what happened in the big picture ask someone that is very honest with you about it right maybe you get another opinion not just from your family but someone who is you know in your workspace and then try to keep growing keep learning from those mistakes because they happen to anyone.So one last question, What do you believe in the international law in promoting global justice? Yes. So I think that international law is so broad, right? It's so challenging that you need to be very fast in adapting, right? Because we see the laws, for example, AI these days, right? There are huge challenges because they're not even in the copyright laws in any country yet. So that's also a big part that a lot of clients come and say, you know, I'm an artist or I'm someone that wants to, you know, also include AI in my music. How can I protect myself? Right. So as you can see, there are so many challenges because the society is always faster than than the law. Right. So we always we always try to keep track and try to adapt to those society challenges. That's a great point. So is there anything else that you would like for us, all the viewers to know about the importance of international law in today's world?some challenges they cannot solve themselves, to always contact a specialist, right? To contact someone who is really knowledgeable in their field, set up a first consultation and then see how you like that person, right? See if it's a good fit for you because you have the free choice in the market. So you can always talk to several people and then make a decision, but don't wait, right? I always tell my clients, because the longer you wait, the harder it is also for us as attorneys to get the best outcome for you. of the knowledge that you just shared. So any plan for the summer for you? So we're expecting twins. I'm six months pregnant. Oh my God. Yes. So that's going to be incredible. It's going to be very exciting for me.Congratulations. But thank you so much. But it will not stop us from, you know, providing the best services to our clients and always keep, you know, learning and growing with them, right? Where it's very important to help as many clients as you can. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for being with us today. Vera, your insights on this topic is so incredibly enlightening. To our viewers, you can connect with Attorney Vera Zambrano by visiting her website, lawyer-berlin-miami. com. And thank you again for watching. Stay tuned for lessons from failures coming up next.

Good afternoon, everybody. Welcome back to the show. I'm very happy to have my colleague, attorney Russell D. Knight, back with us on the show. He's an expert in international family law. He has as well two law firms, one in Chicago and one in Naples, Florida. And he's done hundreds of cases in all the aspects of family law. And yes, I'm very happy that you're back, Russell. Thank you so much. And I hope you had a great week. I'm glad to be back. I had a wonderful week. Thank you. Great, so this episode, right, we're going to cover a little bit about different topics very important topic when it comes to family law um whatis the asset division right when people hear about you know how our assets split in a divorce uh mediation and also um alimony which is spouse support and also child alimony right so we want to talk a little bit about you know first of all we jump right into the asset division um what is you know what do people think about when they hear the word division what is it and are there some differences in the state of Florida and Illinois There is. So all asset division in almost all states, as far as I'm aware, starts with the question of whether an asset is marital or non-marital. And typically that distinction means, was the asset acquired or earned before the marriage or after the marriage?If it's before the marriage, then the courts have no authority to split that asset. They presume that it belonged to you before, you can keep it after. It's usually what most prenups say too. Prenups usually just repeat the law. But the issues that are marital, if you earned something and saved it during the marriage, That's gonna be presumed to be the result of marital efforts and therefore should be split maritally. Different jurisdictions have different policies. For example, in Illinois, they do something called equitable distribution, which means we're going to divide this the way it's fair. So if you're a little old widow or widower, a little old person and you never worked and your spouse is still busy flying private jet planes and is making tons of money, a judge is going to say, you know, I'm not going to split this 50-50.I'm going to give the person who has no capacity to work more than 50. 60, 70 maybe, but it's almost never like 100 or 80 or anything close to that. In Florida, there's no choice. It has to be 50-50, and the court has to make a distinct finding of why it wouldn't be 50-50, and it hardly ever does because courts don't want to open themselves up to be appealed. So I get many people who live in Illinois part of the year and part of the year in Florida, and we go through all this analysis to see what would be the most favorable statutory regime under which you could file for divorce. And it matters for sure. Yes. So perfect. So it's very similar overseas as well.So that's why I advise anyone, no matter if they're living in the States or in Europe, right, to get a prenup or at least hope not because it will secure both parties, not actually the one who earns more or has more. It can also happen that the one who is probably not working or not working as much, not earning as much, could also inherit, right, during marriage. And the other person might not, right? Make a big difference. If you don't have a prenup and then you have, you know, some changes related in the relationship, in the marriage, then can also, you know, draw a completely different picture, right? What would you say about people who say, well, we're very in common about this. We don't need a prenup or we don't even need to discuss it.What would you tell them to try to convince them in a polite way to please get a prenup? I would tell them they already have a prenup. If they're in Illinois, the Illinois Marriage and Act is their prenup. They get to use the one-size-fits-all prenup that everyone else in Illinois uses if they get divorced. So look out a window and look at the guy walking across the street. You're going to use the same prenup that he used. That seems stupid to me. It seems like you'd want to have something that's specifically crafted, especially considering that the prenup will have a choice of law, which will determine what laws of what state you're going to be in. Because if you're moving around, not just to different countries, but to different states, regimes are going to affect your divorce.And maybe you want to lock in right now in the stage that you're in right now so that you'll be familiar with what will happen if, God forbid, you do go to court. Yes, yes. Like very, very important, right? So what would you say is, you know, when it comes to asset division, is equitable distribution versus equal distribution? Because a lot of people don't understand, you know, the difference. Yeah. So equitable distribution is where the court considers everything. They take everything. I really mean that one party has a much higher income or has non-marital assets that are much higher. And so then the judge says, yeah, I get it. Like you've got a big inheritance and you make $500,000 a year, but your wife, she doesn't.And you're just leaving her with half the assets. And the assets are, because rich people spend a lot of money, that doesn't mean they have a lot of money. And if she's left with just maybe a house and half a 401k, a judge might say, no, no, no, we're going to do this equitably. And that means I'm giving her the whole house and I'm giving her more than 50% of the 401k so that she has at least something when she retires. And that's equitable. Florida's under is they're like, sorry, it's 50-50. And you better have a damn good reason to say it's not 50-50. And good luck me adopting that reason because that's just an invitation for me to get appealed. And I don't think I want to do that. Yes.So how many, like what you just scratched a little bit, how many divorces actually go to appeal, go to court appeals? Oh, to appeal? Like a fraction of a percent. Why is that? Because when people think, well, I can appeal, right? I always have the record to appeal. Court in the criminal court, it happens a lot right? Why does it not happen that much or that often because 95 to 98 of family law cases are settled and if you settle something you waive your right to appeal because you've agreed so there's hardly any appeals and the appeals that do happen are so convoluted because remember family law is not very deep like it doesn't, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to get it but it's extremely broad so there's probably 20 different issues that around.Whereas like in a criminal case, it's like, did the cop really know I had probable cause that I had a gun or something like that? It's never that simple in family law. It's like, well, I had 10 accounts. Some of them were marital, not a marital. The court considered this, was that fair? And if it was fair, was it so unfair as to be required an appeal? Most people have a horrible time wrapping their mind around it. And let's be honest, divorce is not pleasant. Why would someone pay good money to relive the same thing? happy with the outcome of my divorce, which, a lot of people, I'm telling you, you cannot go into divorce and come out as the winner because you get divorced. That is also already not a win, right?So for both parties, even if one party initiates the divorce, you will still not be the winner, right? When you come out of your divorce, you have to deal with a lot of issues. You have to probably deal with co-parenting. You have to, you know, there are a lot of things that, you know, make it even more difficult life after divorce, right? So, You both have to come out as best as possible, right? You should settle if you can, right? It makes it a lot easier, a lot less expensive because you don't have to pay that much for the attorney, right? Because most attorneys, they charge an hourly fee, right? Of course, they don't charge one lump sum or they charge an hourly fee. So it gets really, really expensive, right?If you need a good attorney, right? And not just one attorney, then it's getting very expensive too on those people. So a lot of people think settlement means the same as mediation. What would you say about that? Like, is it the same? What are the differences? Well, it's getting there because mediation is a process that's not necessarily mandatory. It's not mandatory in Illinois when it comes to children's issues. It's encouraged if there's children's issues, but it's not mandatory. In Florida, it is absolutely mandatory if there's children and it's highly, highly encouraged for financial issues. Whereas in Illinois, we almost never use it for financial issues. I think it's fantastic, but I only think it's fantastic if you have what's called five-way mediation. That means you're here, your spouse is there.Your spouse's attorney, and then there's the mediator in the middle. Now, a mediator-They are like a real estate agent. They do not care what kind of house you buy. They just want you to buy a house. So the mediator will go back and forth between the two groups and will try to find out, how do I get them to buy into this deal? But the deal that the mediator proposes might not be the ideal deal for either person. That's why you have to have an attorney there to say, 'I wouldn't accept that because you'd probably get a better deal in court.' Or I would accept that because you're actually getting away with something you wouldn't get in court.to recommend five-way mediation to those who can afford it and it's required in florida so you got to do it anyways and we get really good results but um so i'm pro-mediation but i don't want everybody to just sit around we don't think we're all just sitting around singing kumbaya it's not like that at all like people walk out people get angry people yell and it's a it's actually a venue where you can do all of those things because you sure can't do any of those in court yes so i'm also a huge fan of mediation but a lot of clients don't understand they say well you want to you know youshould file for a divorce from me right and they don't understand that you come back you know come back into a room that is not a courtroom and you get you know together to to find a solution right most people most clients you have to convince them you have to tell them what it is and that it's actually in their benefit for their good right in most cases it's they get better results in mediation than they would get in court right and a lot of clients like are not very familiar with that so you have to you know do your your work in advance as an attorney to try to convince them to at least, you know, to, you know, For attempting to do it, because also in Europe it's not mandatory.So you, it's optional. But that makes it harder for, if people say, well, if it's not, if it's not stated in the law that I need it, why should I do that, right? If it's, you know, I can't just file for divorce and fight about everything, you know, if there's no prenup, I'm going to fight about everything, right? So it's difficult. But what if it's, like in Florida, if it's mandatory, then you need to do it, right? You have to go through it and, it gives you even better cards. It does. And it also gives you a preview. It eliminates a lot of discovery issues because it also turns into a global discovery conference. But like, hey, if you want me to come to a deal, I have to see all of your retirement accounts.Or if you want me to come to a deal, I have to see what all your income is. And people typically who didn't want to turn it over before, something like, I want this deal to happen. I'm not sitting in this room for eight hours. So, yes, I will finally, these months and so that's a side benefit that closes deals, hopefully, yes, yes. So very interesting topic, like we have to you know get get deeper into that, but at first um as the last the last point I want to also talk a little bit about L1 right now. People have here alimony, what is you know what is included? Is it just about you know the the child right or the children in a divorce case?Is it also about the about where you live in the United States, especially, right? What is your take on, you know, alimony, on spouse, supporter, and child? In Illinois, we do a formula. It's one third net of the big earner's income, less 25% net of the small earner's income. And the small earner can never, with alimony and their income, make more than 40% of the total. And it's kind of, it's pretty fair. Well, like most of the times I've seen it, I've never been like, that doesn't make sense. Almost always it's like, yeah, that kind of works. In Florida, they say, all right, how much does the big earner make? And then how much money do they have left over?So if a guy had a million dollars a year and he was only really his expenses, his real expenses were after taxes were half a million, then there's like, well, there's another half a million dollars you could pay out there. And then the, not necessarily to be a woman, the other spouse would say, well, suddenly I've got all these expenses. And so I need to get as much of that half as possible. And it creates the same bad incentive for the guy because the guy who's making a million will be like, oh, matter of fact, I have $990 ,000 of expenses. They're all legitimate. And here's how I can prove that they are. And then the other spouse will be like, well, how am I supposed to get paid?Because you only have $10 ,000 left. And the other side will be like, well, yeah, because it encourages games playing. And I don't like it. And then the second aspect is how long it lasts for. And in Illinois, we do a straight formula based on how long it accelerates on a parabolic curve to say that, like, well, the longer you've been together, the longer you'll have to pay somebody alimony, which does make sense. And in Florida, it kind of works the same way, but there's more leeway for the judge.Then it's going to drop. And then we're going to give you this much money to maintain yourself. But we want you to check in to see if you are actually improving your life. And that to me feels. Not constructive for either party because, again, it creates bad incentives. The person who's getting the money from alimony is not going to want to get the world's greatest job. It's going to relieve their. Alimony payments and the person who's uh paying alimony is going to be constantly bothering the person who's receiving the alimony to see like what did you do with your life and when they should be totally separate from each other, yes, totally. And what would you uh, you know, tell a client, recommended client if you know the kind of obviously right earns a lot more than you know the opposite party?What would you recommend to get the best out of the case or to get the best through it? It's easy. You pay up front. And here's how you can do it. And it's going to save you money, twice. People are addicted to having money right now. The average person, if you offer them $2 tomorrow or $1 today, will take the dollar today. And I'm sure their spouse is very similar. So do that. And then here's the best part. If it's part of a transfer of assets due to the divorce, it's tax-free. But if it's out of alimony, you have to pay taxes on the money that you're paying to your ex. So you might be paying $1,000 a month. Tax rate is. Yes, yes.So that's a very good recommendation. That's also, you know, we give clients all the time to say, you know, look, you have to think about it, right? Do you want to be smart or do you want to, you know, just be stubborn right now? And then, you know, you'll get punished by the court eventually, right? Because people always say, oh, it's so unfair, you know, like, and they don't see the whole picture. Also, whenever they set up in their own marriage, when they tell their spouse, 'please stay home, don't go out, don't earn money', like they set up that marriage. marriage right they set up this frame and this is the tradition andthen it's not unfair anymore if the if the judge eventually says in the end 10 years in right in the marriage well the man has the husband has to pay that much much more to the wife because she never worked and then the husband always said well she could work but the husband doesn't understand that he set this tradition right he told the woman to stay at home to take care of the kids not work um and if he encouraged her to partially work or if they got another agreement in the marriage they would both earn no one had to really pay a lot of money in the end right and it's it's asilly argument anyways because usually they say well she should work work at what and then because we're going to impute money to her anyways about what she would be making if she wasn't working and so then if she was working like what do you what did you expect her to become a rocket scientist over the last 10 years no she would have been working at the same boutique you found her in and it just doesn't impact things as as you'd think. Yes, totally. And what about, you know, child alimony, right? So I don't know if you came across that in Florida last year. At least last year, they established a lot of timeshare models. So that's what, like, pro-fathers, actually, right? It is very much so. It's very good.It's a very good development for fathers. So, you know, because now it says the case should be 50-50, the time should be shared 50-50 with the child, father, and mother. So, the mom can't say anymore, 'well, I got the kid anyways right' and the father has to pay me child support when they split. No, it's not that easy anymore right now because the father should make you know, time enough time for the kid so no parent would pay child support actually to the other parent right? Yeah, and that that changed a lot right, it changed like almost every divorce case with kids. What do you think about that, that development? Well, I don't disagree with the 50-50 because I think it's a better starting point than the alternative, which is, it's not stated, but it's dad gets every other weekend, then he builds up from there.But it also, you know, it gives dad enough room, like frankly, to succeed or fail. And if he isn't able to live up to his responsibilities, then he has to start paying more in child support. But child support is just, it's never enough to live on. So either party, And it's never enough to really, I think, impact your finances that much. So I don't think it's the end-all be-all. If you have a child support and an alimony award, yeah, maybe that's a different story. But I think it's kind of a MacGuffin. I don't think it really matters because if you're paying an extra couple hundred dollars a week or a month, just figure out a way to make more than that. Ask your boss for a raise. Yes, so what about Illinois?So how does it work there? We say that there's a child support, there's a formula set based on tables. It's very similar to Florida, but we don't have a 50-50 presumption. It usually is the presumption that they will do whatever the parties were doing when they were split up. And so a lot of guys foolishly are like, 'I'll get an apartment downtown and I'll have a bunch of girlfriends.' And then they realize, no, now they're only getting me every other weekend and they'll have to pay child support. days. And I can't emphasize if you do it, we; it is so difficult to get past that 40% because the problem is seven, the number of days in a week, that's a prime number.So even you'd have to be at six out of fourteen to be over the 40%. And it's just like not going to happen. And if you're at five, like, guess what? It's like, you're still not at 40% then. So what was the point? So my, at any rate, my point is most people should just say, figure out what time you want with your kids in reality. and just live with the child support that comes from the rules. Yes. Just a little follow-up question. What about the children in the divorce case? Do they have anything to say? Is there anything that a judge will listen to the kids? What age? Are there any differences between Florida and Illinois? In Illinois, we usually appoint, if there's a custody issue, a guardian ad litem.And the phrase we use is: 'children can have a voice but not a choice.' So they can express what they want, and the guardian ad litem will consider that recommendation. The guardian ad litem turns into sort of a glorified social worker that recommends to the judge because the judge doesn't have time to learn about the inner lives of hundreds of families and their children. And then in Florida, the 50-50 default kind of makes it so that if you want 50-50, you're probably going to get it. And then you absolutely, they will enforce hearsay rules and the kids really don't have a voice. So if mom or dad says, 'Well, the kids really want to stay with me.' The other attorney would be like, 'Objection, hearsay.' How, like, you can't get a kid's, the kid would have to be in here to testify.And every Florida judge will tell you, I'm never letting a kid into their parents' divorce trial. So good luck with that. Yes, that's very similar in overseas in Europe, and especially Germany, very, very similar. So because even like when the child is 13, that's like the golden number, 13, that someone can actually be heard into consideration what the kid, the minor, like, you know, the teenager at that point says, but they will not make it, you know, their decision. They will also talk about, you know, to the Guardian, they will talk to social workers if necessary, but they will say, okay, the child can also be manipulated, right? How do I know that the child expresses his or her own will and not the mom's or the dad's?So that's very, you know, it's not that firm, right? When the child starts there. It can only be taken as, you know, as something additional for the judge to make it decision but it's not definitely not a choice of the kid, yeah it isn't like what do kids want to eat every day ice cream are you going to give them ice cream every day come on yes exactly if you leave choices up their kid it doesn't matter if it's a teenager or a younger kid right they're going to say they're going to choose something that is probably not on the best for them and not healthy, right it's always yeah but it's just fun and what it's just you know like for the actual current fun and not looking at you know the future right what impact it would have.Also, when it comes to divorce or separation, even already, the moms and the dads are trying to challenge sometimes each other with gifting, right? With gifting the kid. Or we're saying like, if you come with me, I'm giving you this. I'm giving you a new dog. I'm giving you, right? And then the kid is also in between, right? And the kid obviously loves mom and dad the same way. So they would not want to make a decision. I want to live with mom or dad. So what you're doing, when you take a child, what we have a lot in our case is they say, 'I want my child to go to court because he wants to live with me.' And I tell them we should not do that, right?Because once we do that and the judge sees the child is being manipulated, or even if not, the child will have, you know, a longer need to even like have to go through therapy, right? At one point, because you drag on a child into the courtroom or to talk to a judge about, you know, what do you want to live with? Who do you want to live with in the future? To make a choice pro-dad or pro-mom, right? So obviously, what you're doing is just putting the problem on the child and saying, 'You have to solve it. You have to speak up where you know what future looks like, right? And it's not fair. It's not fair to the child because it's not an adult yet, right?You can't put adult decisions on a kid's back. So I don't know if you had ever that problem that clients came to you and said, 'I want my child to tell everyone what they told me in private, right? Yeah, I've found that children are very unreliable narrators. They really want both parents to love them. So they will say in front of dad, 'Oh, no, I love spending time with dad.' And then they'll say in front of mom, like, 'Oh, not really. I'd rather be with mom.' That's natural. And it's frankly cruel and really misconceived to put a child in that position. Kids don't get to make choices. And I'm not even sure they should have a voice that often because then it just puts them in between their parents, which is exactly the worst thing that happens.In a divorce, yes, yes, perfect. We just wanted to dive quick into this topic of course there's a lot more to cover right it's just we could talk about it for for hours or even for days only about those topics but if people say okay that's exactly my case I need someone you know it's about divorce it's about children it's about you know asset division. How can they get a hold of you? Oh, they can call me on my, they can go to my website, actually, preferable to learn more about me. It's rdklegal. com. My Florida website is divorceattorneynaplesfl. com. And if they want to reach out to me directly, they can call my cell. No, they call my office at 773-334-6311. Okay, perfect.Do you have anything else regarding those topics that you want to just give, you know, clients, new clients, existing clients as a recommendation or a tip? Well, I would, yeah, Google anything about Illinois divorce and I will be one of the first three things that comes up where I explain it. I have over 700 articles that I've personally written and I update because I read the appeals every week and I will likely, if I don't have the answer for what you're looking for, I'll have the structure of how you can understand the situation that you're trying to grasp and read those before you call me because that's really what I'm all about. I don't pretend to know everything, but I'd like to meet someone who knows more than me. Perfect, perfect. Thank you so much, Russell. That was an amazing talk today. We'll catch up later, right? And yes, we want to just encourage everyone who listened today, contact him. He knows a lot, if not everything about international family law. Contact him for his Illinois office in Chicago, right? Or in Naples, Florida. So he's licensed in two states. He has two law firms, right? And he will represent you with all of his experience. You so much for joining um and talk to you soon thank you